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Juran on Deming; Deming on Juran

9/20/2013

4 Comments

 
Picture
Joseph Juran and W. Edwards Deming were the great leaders in quality in the 20th Century. Their ideas are the foundation for quality today. Both were interviewed separately for the PBS Special, An Immigrant’s Gift. From the files of the Dr. Juran "An Immigrant's Gift" Archival Project: Each talks about meeting the other and their relationship. 

The interview with Dr. Deming was on April 10, 1991, in Washington, DC;  the interview with Dr. Juran, May 2, 1991, in Wilton, Connecticut.

DR. JURAN: Well, our paths first crossed during World War II. I took him to lunch during the 
war  . . . a Romanian restaurant 
that served blintzes. So, that's when I took him to lunch, and 
I assume I met him then. I might have met him before that, 
I'm not sure of that. We once were in this Hawthorne factory together, but I 
didn't know that he was there and he didn't know I was 
there, and we were not in the same area. That's just one of those coincidences that has no 
relation to this field. 

Our paths have been 
totally different. He's a statistician. He spent a good deal of 
time in the Bureau of Census, very helpful to them in 
sampling as a means of handling the census and the like. 
Statistician. Whereas my field has been quality and then, 
subsequently, management, and finally, back into 
quality again. 

As to our relationship, we're good friends. And I think there's a mutual respect there. I've got a lot 
of respect for his status as statistician. He's been a deep 
thinker on it.  I don't think he's invented anything. But he has made contributions.


Picture
DR. DEMING: I'm not sure if I could recall the first 
meeting. One of the first ones was in Washington. I 
have a hard time giving you an approximation to the date. 
He took me to lunch in Washington, to a Hungarian restaurant. 
Had cheese blintzes and had a nice talk about Western 
Electric, other things. I, resolved to take him to lunch sometime, but every time I tried to, found that lunch was free to both of us. I 
had no chance to repay him all these years. Interest has 
amounted up to quite a bit by now. 

He had of course a great 
understanding about Western Electric. I'm a good 
listener, learn from anybody. He was very kind, though, to call me up 
and invite me to lunch. Appreciated that.

I've learned a lot from him . . . He made the statement, could have been long about 
1954, could have been earlier, that when anybody on the job, 
let's say hourly workers, have achieved statistical control of 
their process, they have put in the job all that they have to 
offer. Powerful statement. I've never forgotten it.  


Image of Dr. Juran courtesy of G. Howland Blackiston. Used with permission. 

Image of Dr. Deming from FDA.gov in public domain.  http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/File:W._Edwards_Deming.jpg


4 Comments
Dan Lang
9/11/2014 02:23:17 pm

I have looked into the interrelationship of these two men for a time. Both men were first trained as Electrical Engineers. Dr. Juran went on to obtain a law degree, but never practiced law. Dr. Deming went on to obtain a masters and a PhD in physics and mathematics and practiced his fields fully. The personal influence of Shewhart on Dr. Deming is well known and easily proven. The influence of Shewhart on Dr. Juran is not as clear cut factually but in conceptual thought is very clear. Both men had professorships at NY University. But despite this and other commonalities they seem distant from one another. Dr. Juran's comments towards Dr. Deming, at least the one's I have read seem much more abrupt. Dr. Deming on the other hand is quick to credit to Dr. Juran in his books, Out of Crisis and The New Economics. Dr. Juran as far as I see does not mention Dr. Deming in his writings. From the quote above by Dr. Juran, he saw Dr. Deming purely as a statistician which in my understanding is a mischaracterization. Dr. Deming was greatly influenced but to a lesser degree by Shewhart's philosophical leanings which were very, very deep in the person of C.I Lewis. Dr. Juran on the other hand had no such deep philosophical base. Dr. Deming had a great empathy toward ordinary people very clearly and to a greater degree expressed than by Dr. Juran. Dr. Juran for the most part was a technocrat, while Dr. Deming was statistician, engineer, philosopher, a people person, a renaissance, well-rounded man; Dr. Juran not as much. I think this is where the abruptness of Dr. Juran comes from, his largely technical side when contrasted to the very well-roundedness of Dr. Deming. In some writings of Dr. Juran this is manifested as outright hostility toward Dr. Deming.

Dr. Deming was much more than a deep thinking statistician, Dr. Juran, your judgment is inaccurate.

Reply
John B.
9/12/2014 05:50:54 am

Dan, thanks for reading and commenting. I think Deming was probably the more social of the two. Both were giants of quality. My take has been Deming was more "little q", in the trenches, SPC, etc., and Juran more "big q", conceptually more at senior management level. I think their personalities are shown in their interests: Deming, playing the piano; Juran, chess. If you haven't viewed yet, check out some of the videos from our AIG Project: http://asq-qmd.org/the-joseph-m-juran-interviews

Thanks again, Dan. All the best.

John B.

Reply
Dan Lang
9/12/2014 08:02:22 am

John, that is a clear distinction between the two, sociability. One critique of Juran mentioned that because of this, he did not promote his ideas as strongly as they should have been.

Reply
John B.
9/12/2014 08:14:28 am

Agree, Dan. Those closest to Juran describe him as a very humble man who did not seek, need, or want publicity. Before he passed, one of my quality classes signed and sent him a birthday card. He replied this was a first, he appreciated, and that the students needed to work on their penmanship. :<)

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